I think this is succinct and compelling! It certainly describes all the reasons self-publishing is not for me. I hope you'll come back to the poster in my thread and point him at it. :)

Excellent! Yep, you nailed it.

Leaving out the fact that I make a living at this so have to have money up front to write each book, I honestly don't have time to sell my book as well as write it. A few cons and some signings are one thing, but if I'm going to do all my own distribution and promo, when will I have time to write the next book? Not to mention the competition--all the hundreds of other authors with the same idea, and all the thousands of traditionally published books competing for the same limited amount of shelf space. Selling online will fix this, you say? So do thousands of others, all competing for the attention of would-be readers--the vast majority of whom will delete spam on sight, so how are you going to "cold-contact" anyone?

The quality thing is a really tough one for would-be writers to face. Generally speaking, if you write well enough to get published, somebody is going to publish you eventually. If you can't break in and you keep getting the Slush Rejection, maybe it's time to pull back and assess your writing honestly, and then decide whether you should keep persevering and improving your craft, or find another line of work.

Having time to market the books is a big problem. When I had one book to sell I was all full of verve and vigor and sending it out was no problem. Two was no problem. Three was exciting, but beginning to get a little confusing.

Once I hit six or seven books, the notion of marketing them all was so exhausting I stopped trying.

I am so relieved I have someone to handle this for me now. I just wonder if the poor agent knows what she's in for. She only knows about the three books currently getting attention... not the four I have languishing that I didn't bother to try to market!

The quality thing is a really tough one for would-be writers to face.

It can even be hard for published writers to face. :-) There are still projects sometimes that I have to take a good hard look at, and accept that no, this one isn't quite ready to go yet. (There's also the danger of deciding something's not good enough for too long, and holding on to it out of fear--so many ways for us writers to be neurotic if we want to. :->)

Oh, well said!

One thing that appears to have been left out is the fact that 'professional books' still have errors. The last few books I have read are full of bad grammer and a typo or two. Most notedly was a textbook for a Forensic Psychology course I took Winter term. I counted 14 errors in the first 30 pages, and it was credited to two editors (second edition too, I believe). You can get editors to look at your work, and there are people out there willing to market your book without robbing you blind. You just have to look out for it. I pity those who reel in $200 royalty cheques every six months when the number should be some ten to twenty times larger. Shipping may be expensive, but it's not that expensive.

I won't even get into a tirade regarding copyright issues, since I usually end up running at quite a length about them. Simply put, I see few publishers that allow the writer to maintain ownership over their own work (or so I would assume when the book's copyright is credited to the publishing house). It's sad.

On another topic, a self-published book can appear professional if you actually put effort into it. I don't know what people's obsessions are with things that look pretty--society has become far too vain for my tastes, I think--but just because something doesn't look clean and polished does not mean it has little worth. Furthermore, you can hire an editor to go over your work and you can pass it around to your peers for critiquing. You want to spend all your time writing? Well, there's nothing stopping you, but I'd love to be pointed in the direction of a publishing house that actually pays you for the work you did. Printing a book, distributing it, and running advertisements for it hardly take anywhere near the time or effort required to actually write a book, so why should they claim up to 90% of the profit for doing so?

It is a matter of not getting paid what is due to me and not having ownership over my work to do with as I please (including publishing with someone else) that has turned me off to the realm of 'professional' publishing. I am still not entirely sure why people would bother with professional publishing, considering most offers I have seen end up with the author paying money to be published, and getting little in return for all of their hard work. Unless, of course, your work is pure gold. In such a case, you may be offered money. But most authors are not best sellers. There's also a matter of contract. I would never want to be locked into having to write for one publishing house, especially if I find out they have already gypped me.

Then again, perhaps all of you have had the time to actually get into a place where you make enough money to support yourselves while writing, while the rest of us are stuck working on all but writing just to pay the bills. In the end, many of us are unable to do what we dream simply because we cannot afford the luxury.

Naturally, there is always the chance I am mistaken. I have already been shown that few actually have faith in self-publishing, even though most I know in real life have no faith in 'professional' publishing. Amusing how that is, isn't it? Heck, my English professor went on rants about how publishers are evil. Maybe it's just the company I find myself in. Most of the stories I hear from writers are of their terrible luck with publishers. That does little to instill some faith, and having had that imprinted upon me for the last several years, it is hard to break through that shell. Aside from the points already noted, what makes professional publishing so great, I wonder?

- Alascus

P.S. As a side note regarding vanity, I myself prefer less colorful front covers than most books you find. My copies of the three parts of the Lord of the Rings are good examples. It is nice to see some people thought to keep things simple, something so few seem to do today. It's refreshing to see such.

I'm not sure how this answers Janni's points. Legit publishing houses _do_ pay writers for the work they do-- that's what makes them legit. They pay you, you don't pay them. If that's not the case, they are not legitimate and are rather a form of vanity press or a scam.

As for the amount of money made by the publishing CEOs, executives, editors, copyeditors, designers, artists, typesetters, publicists, shippers, bookshop owners, and bookshop salespeople, these all seem to me to be perfectly legitimate and necessary jobs, without which the author's book would not sell and make the author any money.

It's true that if you self-publish, you do all that yourself, but as Janni said, then you're taking away from your own writing time, and for no good reason. With extremely rare exceptions, mostly in specialized non-fiction genres, self-published books do not sell because they don't make it into bookshops, and so the author may save money but also won't make any. The idea that self-publishing is cost-effective is the most classic example of being penny wise and pound foolish I've heard in a while.

As for the idea that it's a sign of vanity when people reject unprofessional-looking books, I totally disagree. An unprofessional design suggests unprofessional contents. I wouldn't hire anyone with an illiterate resume, and I wouldn't buy a book that looks amateurish.

Ownership of rights is a complex issue and certainly one where authors often get a raw deal, but I'd rather have my book in print but at the mercy of a legit publisher than self-published, which means that nobody who isn't a personal friend will ever see it.

Finally, I'm not sure where you get the idea that all contracts tie you to a single publisher. That is simply not the case.

I'm not sure how this answers Janni's points.

How it answers them is a lot more concisely than I did. :-)

I'll try and take these one at a time in hopes of doing them justice. And of course, mileage varies, us does each writer's experience.

One thing that appears to have been left out is the fact that 'professional books' still have errors. The last few books I have read are full of bad grammer and a typo or two.

Oh, it's definitely a problem that proofreading is not given the time it used to be. In my experience the density of such errors is still lower in professionally published books, but that's not why I want a professional publisher--I can proofread well enough myself, having some training in same.

But what I want from an editor is the big-picture feedback, and the constructive suggestions of what to do about it. In my current book, due out in 2005, the editor was the one who pointed out to me that I hadn't left enough clues to my mystery for the readers to have a chance of solving it; she also pointed out some crucial things to do with the emotional arc of the book, and how the protagonist and her mother need a few more points of connection at the end.

These are things I hadn't caught, but they made a lot of sense when pointed out to me, and the book will ultimately be stronger as a result.

On errors: I have always reviewed copyedits and proofs of my work--short and long. I've had good, bad, and indifferent copy editors. Errors will still creep in--but self-publishing would not help that at all. With a copy editor, paid for by the publisher, I get another pair of eyes on the book, often to its advantage. If I had to do this myself, I would have to pay for it.

The only money that ever goes from me instead of to me is the commission I pay my agent--which he earns in spades, week in and week out. I earn a living at this. I could never do so if I were paying for it a la carte.

I pity those who reel in $200 royalty cheques every six months when the number should be some ten to twenty times larger. Shipping may be expensive, but it's not that expensive.

If no advance was involved first, that's criminally low. If there was an advance first, and this is after that earned out, whether the writer was being treated fairly would depend on the actual numbers (of both books sold and royalties received) ijnvolved.

Simply put, I see few publishers that allow the writer to maintain ownership over their own work (or so I would assume when the book's copyright is credited to the publishing house). It's sad.

I've done work for hire, where the packager owns the copyright, but for specific reasons and with my eyes open, and that's the exception, not the rule. The book I have coming out in 2005 will certainly be under my own copyright, as have been all my short stories. There's no reason a writer working on an original novel shouldn't maintain the copyright to their work. I don't know of a non-media-tie-in, reputable publisher that routinely claims a writer's copyrights.

Simply put, I see few publishers that allow the writer to maintain ownership over their own work (or so I would assume when the book's copyright is credited to the publishing house). It's sad.


I'm just replying to your replies here, janni, since you cut them out so nicely. :)

I think an important point here is not to confuse different kinds of writing. Writing nonfiction is different from writing fiction is different from writing copy is different from writing for games, etc, etc.

In the industry most of us work in (janni, dancinghorse, sartorias... and me!), you own your copyright. What you grant to the publisher is the right to print your original work for a specified term. How long and in what format depends on the publisher and how good you are and how good your agent is--but in no case do you give away your copyright. Ever! :)

Wow. Lots of misconceptions here. To add to what Janni said: Advances run many times more than $400 a year. A standard first-novel advance is $7500 paid half on signing and half on acceptance of the revised ms. Publishers are paying well upwards of that actually for projects they are confident about--it's fairly normal to get $15-20K for a book.

Rule one is: Money always flows to the author.

I would never write for any publisher that did not allow me to retain copyright. All of my 30-some books and all of my Iforgethowmany stories are copyright to me, without exception.

I don't know what people's obsessions are with things that look pretty--society has become far too vain for my tastes

Professional typesetting makes a book physically easier to read. All other things being equal, I'll go for an easy-to-read book before one that will strain my eyes.

I think--but just because something doesn't look clean and polished does not mean it has little worth.

Of course not. It means a lack of a certain sort of care in production, however, which increases the chances--not guarantees, but increases--that the writing will also lack a certain sort of care. Again, as a reader, if I'm choosing what to read, I'm going to go with something that has a better chance of being well-written, even while knowing there's a chance I'm missing something worthwhile.

Furthermore, you can hire an editor to go over your work and you can pass it around to your peers for critiquing.

The editors I've worked with have caught things my peers have missed, regularly, even though I value the judgment of my peers--but they don't work on dozens of books a year, and have a different perspective.

I can hire an editor, and I wish more self-published writers would. But that's one more expense, and a professional publisher doesn't charge me for the services of the editor who acquired my book.

I have a real weakness for exquisitely produced books. Always have. Some of the very first purchases I made with my babysitting money way back when was well=produced used books on good paper, with fine print and sewn bindings and tooled covers. Swoon.

Sidestep: my absolute favorite of these was the Latin history an old professor friend had, dating back to the 1500s. On the flyleaves the scholar had drawn various styles of doublet and jerkin that he was obviously considering ordering--probably when he should have been studying....

You want to spend all your time writing? Well, there's nothing stopping you, but I'd love to be pointed in the direction of a publishing house that actually pays you for the work you did.

Ummm, just about all publishers do this, in my experience. I don't know what genre you're working in, but I know that in children's book publishing, there are at least a couple dozen large presses like this, before one even goes to the small press level. In genre SF/fantasy, somewhere between 6 and 10--again before even looking at small press. Most genres have at least several professional publishers, and professional publishers pay you for the work you do. That's what makes them professional.

I consider writing to be most of the work, so I think 10% is ridiculously low. I guess when it comes down to it, if a title of mine were going for $9, I wouldn't want anything less than $4 per copy sold. $0.90? Heck no. If you only sell 100 copies, that's not even enough to pay half a month's rent.

Printing a book, distributing it, and running advertisements for it hardly take anywhere near the time or effort required to actually write a book, so why should they claim up to 90% of the profit for doing so?

As someone with a print production, copyediting, and marketing background, I have to say you're underestimating the effort involved in doing these things. (And don't forget the editing and the time it involves, too.) They most certainly do take as much work as writing a book--and they take skill and experience to do well, too.

Effort, perhaps, but not cost. It would only cost me $100 dollars to print 100 360-page books. Anymore and you're being ripped off.

It is a matter of not getting paid what is due to me and not having ownership over my work to do with as I please (including publishing with someone else) that has turned me off to the realm of 'professional' publishing.

I'm truly sorry if you ran into a publisher who wasn't as professional as they claim to be, who didn't pay you as they ought. Professional publishers pay their writers, and the professional writers I know have all been paid for their work.

I am still not entirely sure why people would bother with professional publishing, considering most offers I have seen end up with the author paying money to be published,

I've never been given an offer that would have resulted in my paying money to be published, ever.

Unless, of course, your work is pure gold. In such a case, you may be offered money.

No, my work isn't pure gold (or even impure gold)--that's why I value the editors I've worked with so much. I want their input. It makes my books better.

But again, I've always been offered money. I've never paid money to get my books and short stories published, ever.

I would never want to be locked into having to write for one publishing house, especially if I find out they have already gypped me.

I suspect you're talking about the option clause in many contracts here. One has to negotiate these very carefully. You want to make sure that, while the publisher has the right to make the first offer on your next book, you're not obligated to accept that offer; and further, you're not bound for anything but to show them that next book. (If they make an offer and you accept it, than the option clause for that next book will cover the one after that.)

If in doubt, hiring a contract lawyer (if you're not working with an agent) can be really helpful here.

And if a publisher has too awful a contract clause and won't budge on it, I agree that's grounds to walk away. I know folks who have done it.

Thankfully, I let other people run into bad situations before I do. I like to sit at a distance and learn before I go at something. Speaking with people who have more experience than myself can be eye-opening, even if it goes against all that I have taken to be true.

As for publishers costing money, I was under the assumption (I know, assuming things makes an ass of u and me, but it cannot always be helped) that one had to pay a publisher to publish their work. You may then get royalty fees, but you have to go to them, unless you're discovered, in which case you're just lucky to have been in the right place at the right time.

Then again, perhaps all of you have had the time to actually get into a place where you make enough money to support yourselves while writing, while the rest of us are stuck working on all but writing just to pay the bills.

I have a day job. Am fortunate in being able to make it a half-time, freelancing day job, but it's taken me work even to get that far, and there have been definite tradeoffs involved.

In the end, many of us are unable to do what we dream simply because we cannot afford the luxury.

If one can't afford to publish traditionally though, one is probably even less able to self-publish, which requires an outlay not only of time but also of money.

even though most I know in real life have no faith in 'professional' publishing.

Faith has nothing to do with it. Professional publishing has a better track record and doesn't require I lay out money up front, so that's the way I choose to gamble.

Aside from the points already noted, what makes professional publishing so great, I wonder?

Aside from all of the above, for me it's the fact that so many more people are reading my book, when all is said and done.

I don't know what people's obsessions are with things that look pretty--society has become far too vain for my tastes, I think--but just because something doesn't look clean and polished does not mean it has little worth.

Good book design is not about pretty, it's about useablity. You never notice a well-designed book; a merely mediocre book design is harder to read, because the imperfections keep introduing on the reader. And it takes a lot of work (and professional experience) to get it up to even mediocre design.

And speaking as a reader, there are a </i>lot</i> of options out there, competing for my reading time. I have enough trouble choosing among professionally published books. Anything that makes something look less than professional has already taken several hits against it. It has to be well-recommended before I'll take a chance with it.

Speaking as someone who works in a corporate pubications office as writer, editor, in production, and sometimes even design, you are seriously underestimating how much time goes into the phases of publishing beyond writing. We have a captive audience (our clients) so don't even have to worry about marketing, and can get away with mediocre design, and we are very thankful for that.

---L.

I was wondering if you would mind pulling this together into a small article for my upcoming 'zine, Reflection's Edge (www.reflectionsedge.com)? I'd love to have an article on self-publishing.

Thanks for asking--and see your email. :-)